Customers have reported that they are unable to roam off the Ting network with the ATIV S Neo.
This forum post will be updated with any new information on this issue.
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ATIV S Neo voice roaming currently unsupported on version 8.0
Michael Whitman
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Ting is asking Ting for a feature??
That's novel!
While really savvy users can fix this (thanks to user Paul H/Blue_Frog) with a registry edit, it would be nice if Ting would create a guide for doing so OR a flashable ROM.
Jeremy, I meant to ask you this long ago, but did you ever get MMS/data AND roaming to work? Last I heard, you had fixed roaming at a cost. Is there an actual, complete fix out there that I missed?
Davide, I'm flattered, but sadly I'm not that smart. I finally got data and roaming sorted, but MMS is still an elusive target. I'm getting ready to play with apn settings again (as I do every couple weeks for fun). If I come up with anything, I'll let you know!
In short, you haven't missed anything.
Actually Jeremy, I'm pretty impressed. Data was a deal breaker for me, but voice roaming and MMS is six of one, half dozen of the other. Not sure it would be worth all the work to fix one while breaking the other, but it gives me hope! Thanks for your efforts.
Getting data back up was mainly an exercise in persistence and willing to go digging, building on the work of the truly intelligent.
It might even not be an issue now since the preview has been updated a few times (provided you are able to get the preview updates). Re-provisioning the phone is central to all these problems, and at least the data was solved by finding the now hidden "network profile settings" option and running it. (Since "activate your phone" or "self-activation" never worked with Ting and barely works for Sprint, this is your easiest option, with the only other being manual programming.) Just do a search on your phone for "network profile settings" and shazzam, there it is.
'Course, I've heard that THIS workaround might not work for the newest build of 8.1, so then you may be back to manual programming. Yay! If you want to stay with 8.0 and get roaming up, refer back to Blue_Frog's registry tweak. I'm happy to walk you through it if need be.
Thanks Jeremy. I'd actually found the network profile settings through Cortana, but never did break my data in the first place, so it didn't do much. And though I think I could follow the registry tweak, going back to 8.0 (and thus losing voicemail notifications again) didn't seem worth it either. But if you ever got it all fixed on 8.1 developer preview, that'd be a whole new ballgame. Full disclosure, I gave up trying after months of reading boards and am currently on an Android phone. But I would go back to Windows Phone in a second if thus gets sorted out.
Hello All,
So, this isn't a solution - just a work around. And it's not just my work, but that of Paul H., Andrew W., Davide C., and many others. Maybe they've figured it out and just haven't posted it yet. OR it could be that I'm just the only one persistent and annoyed enough to test this out.
Backgound
Phone 1: Never factory reset
Can call, SMS, MMS, use cellular data
Crashes after using camera
Network profile update present and functional
OS: 8.0.10532.166
FW: 2216.13.07.6
Phone 2: Factory reset after early versions of Dev Preview
Can call, SMS, use cellular data, CAN NOT MMS
Crashing camera bug fixed (used to do the same thing as phone #1)
Network profile update is NOT present in menus (hidden or not) and NOT functional when using the dialer
OS: 8.10.14157.200
FW: 2216.13.07.6
Phone #2 is a test bed, since we were working with Sprint, MS, Samsung, and Ting to solve various problems. Went to new version of OS since that was reported by some to fix camera issue and previous voice roaming issue.
Seems as though Phone #2 is not retaining (or actually saving/writing) the MMS UserProfile or MMSC URL. The MMS UserProfile will be retained until I restart the phone. The MMSC URL will not be saved regardless. I've tried adding the APN info into the manual SIM settings from this source:
https://apn.gishan.net/settings/741_20_sprint_apn_settings_for_samsung_ativ_s_neo.php manually under Cellular+SIM, but that does not appear to work, either.
Course, since MS removed the ability to do a PRL update under settings and the ## 72786 # just bombs out after clearing the network data without repopulating it, there's no way for the phone to be re-provisioned automatically. I had to reprogram my phone manually just to get the ability to call and text (##3282#). Still, no MMS here, and it seems like I'm on a slower speed network (under Data Programming-View-Other-MMSC URL-Connection Type: gprs), Even though LTE is enabled I'm not able to get on the network. Comparing the data programming of both phones shows all other settings that can be seen under Data Programming to be the same - with the exception of the additional information displayed under Data Programming-View-MMSC URL. The connection type and other settings are wrong for Phone #2 - as you'd expect since it's not using the same profile information and the PRL won't work.
The inability to either update the network profile OR manually set the MMS APN is a bug of some kind. It must relate to doing a factory reset, which, I think, debrands the phone if you have the Dev Preview installed.
Work around
WARNING: Be careful, not my fault if you brick stuff, blah blah...
So, after fighting the problem and trying to find the data programming and debug settings that only an anonymous Sprint tech knows (held in some secure, secret location, I'm sure), I finally broke down and flashed back to stock GDR2 using Andrew W. instructions and tools he gathered (thanks, Andrew!). One note: do not use a hub or front access ports to connect your phone, even if they are powered. The drivers may not detect the phone properly. Go old school and use the back/direct USB ports.
Problem was, that left me back with no voice roaming and a camera that crashed the phone.
So, I dev unlocked the phone to put a registry editor on the phone. I used Paul H.'s registry tweaks to enable Voice Roaming. For jollies (and because I wanted a fix for the camera bug), I enrolled in the Dev preview (since I knew I could go back to GDR2 if need be). Only difference: I never did a factory reset after flashing the phone. Note: immediately after the patch preparing for the 8.1 RC, my data settings were erased and lost MMS and cell data capability. Interesting, no? But this time, when I added the MMS UserProfile Info and MMS URL manually using Data Programming, it saved the info!
** I am now running the latest Dev Preview (8.10.14157.200 - actually a release candidate) and have a fully functional phone. S**adly, it took 9 months, and I know others have waited longer.
While far from ideal, I wanted to post this to help others AND to help Ting/MS/Samsung/Sprint pinpoint the issue. Again, Ting and MS have been supportive, at least - which is more than I can say for Samsung and Sprint. (Though there was one Sprint tech in a store I visited who at least understood what I was telling him - maybe he's on his way to a secret bunker as we speak!)
Sorry for the long post, but I wanted you to have all the info I have. If you need further explanation, let me know.
Jeremy, you're the man! Just one thing I want to add: on 8.1 DP you can do a PRL update through Cortana. A search for "Update Network Settings," I think, gets you there. It's probably a moot point since you got everything working, but if anyone ever wrote up a guide then it might be worth testing. It would be great if it eliminated the need for some of the manual programming.
Now I need to decide if I want to get my old Ativ S Neo back. I'm missing Windows Phone. Badly.
Thanks so much for all of your work and help. I'm seriously impressed.
Hi Davide,
Ah, I really hate to correct you. For the last two or three builds of 8.1, PRL update has been removed (which was part of the problem). Not sure why, and I've contact MS a few different ways to find a reason. Searching for "network profile update" using Cortana or just the regular old search button/Bing USED to get to this menu option - but not anymore. Neat, huh? Maybe it just changed names? It's probably a registry setting I just haven't found yet.
Darn, that's a bummer. I could have sworn I saw that menu on my phone right before I sent it back, but you would know better as I haven't had my hands on it for a while. It could also be an intermittent thing, I suppose. I never had the mysterious camera problem, for example.
Hi, Jeremy. So I've gotten my hands on a Neo again, and I was wondering if I could trouble you with some questions. I know how to developer unlock the phone, but never did put a registry editor on it. Which one did you use, and where did it come from? The Microsoft Store? Also, could you point me to the settings I would need to manually program? I manually reprogrammed MMS URL once, but never MMS UserProfile. Are the entries I need in the old thread? Does reprogramming those two fix MMS and data? If you'd prefer to have this conversation outside of this thread, let me know and I'll respond with an email address. Thanks so much!
Just arrived back home, so sorry for the delay, Davide.
Whew. That's a lot of detailed (but pertinent) questions!
I'm happy to help. Post an email/skype/etc address you'd like to use to chat, and we'll work on it together.
Take care,
Jeremy
Thanks Jeremy. If you could drop me a line at 09dgceph at gmail.com that would be great. I'll respond with what I take to be the necessary steps, and then you can set me right if I've missed something.
Ting,
Do you have any news at all on this?
Jeremy,
So you were able to get the most recent firmware (with camera fix), correct the roaming issue, and run the most recent developer preview without loss of data, MMS, or anything else?
Davide,
Let us know how it goes!
Brad
Hi there, Brad,
The firmware is still stuck at 2216.13.07.6, so no luck there. The camera still crashes sometimes, but it is far, far less - so much less that I haven't bothered to systematically test it.
All the other items you mentioned are up and running, but, as I've said, it's a little...tricky...and there is risk involved (even though small). Too bad Samsung and Sprint aren't devoting enough time to these issues, leaving it up to the consumer to fix the product/service, eh? At least Ting is helping where they can.
Regards,
Jeremy
Hi all,
I've been too busy to make much headway on my end, but AT&T announced today that their Ativ S Neo is getting 8.1, rollout to begin immediately, so perhaps there is hope for all of us that this will be moot soon! Ting, any inside info?
Best,
Davide
Hi all,
Perhaps some good news for everyone!
http://support.sprint.com/support/article/Find_and_update_the_software_version_on_your_Samsung_ATIV_S_Neo/WServiceAdvisory_542_GKB55022
Supposedly Sprint is pushing the 8.1 update, which might fix things. Ting, any news/idea on when we might actually see this?
Davide
Thanks, Davide! Nice job wading into the fray. To be honest, I stopped checking Sprint's site long ago as it proved to be fairly useless for so long. Maybe this is an exception! Until Ting confirms it (they are far more reliable, in my experience), I'm not holding my breath.
For what it's worth, I also got in contact with Sprint Care through Twitter and was told we should expect the update "soon."
Hey all, folks on Windows Central have confirmed that they have received the update on their Sprint Neos. No word yet on if it fixes the bug, but I've asked.
Hello, Has anybody on Ting received the update yet? Do you think Ting users will be able to get the update without the correct registry options enabling Sprint to show as the carrier under the cellular options?
I was easily one of the first to get this phone, and while it's developer unlocked, it's still running the initial firmware and OS. It has never shown Sprint as the carrier and thus has never roamed. I have waited a very long time for the supposed fixes in this update.
If you receive the update please let us know here.
Brad
Hi Brad, no luck for me yet, or the other Neo owners I know. But many people who have the phone through Sprint haven't gotten it yet, either, so I'm hopeful it isn't a Ting issue.
I have not gotten it yet either
I guess what I was alluding to in my previous post... I'm wondering if people like me will have to flash a GDR2 ROM like Jeremy did, or like quite a lot of 8.1 Dev Previewers are doing, just so that the Sprint update servers will see their devices. In other words, are the original stock devices like mine (running FW 2216.13.07.6 an OS 8.0.10328.78) invisible to the update servers? Having never had a cellular operator show under 'Active network' under the cellular settings makes me think my phone may not know where to look for updates.
Jeremy, did Sprint show as your Active network only after you flashed to the GDR2 ROM? Wondering if there are some registry settings one can tweak without doing a full ROM flash. I.e. Interop Unlock --> tweak registry settings to fix active network (and roaming while we're at it) --> phone realizes it's part of Sprint & updates itself.
Maybe I'm just being negative & pessimistic here, but I'm just trying to avoid having to wait even longer for a roll out that never comes to my phone. Can it not be determined at this point whether my phone & firmware/OS is getting this update as is, or am I going to have take additional action on my part? Anyway, FWIW Renny M says (https://help.ting.com/entries/104160043-Sprint-rolled-out-the-windows-phone-8-1-update-to-the-ativ-s-neo-this-week-When-will-we-get-it-) "Ting devices will receive system updates on the same timeline as Sprint devices." I've also read updates go out according to device serial number.
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Hey there Brad et al.,
For what it's worth, no official update here, either - with DevPreview enabled or disabled.
Sprint has never shown as my active network - pre or post flashing, pre or post DevPreview. It has always been blank. At one point I got it to say "Unknown network" (and had some sort of connectivity), but I got nervous and stopped trying to fix a problem that may not be a problem (although it sure as heck looks like one to me). So, based on what I've read, Brad hasn't received any updates because - outside of the DevPreview - there weren't any since the FW didn't match the updated SW (which have caused its own set of problems for some).
And yes, I bet there are registry settings that address this, as Paul found to address the roaming error. God only knows where they are, though. I could go looking, but it would be time consuming. Someone at TIng should know since it's their network, one would thing. BUT I doubt that you are "invisible" because of your FW or SW. However, we, as WP8 users are a low priority to Sprint and Samsung, so any delay probably has more to do with that than anything else (i.e., we don't get much engineering time, why would we get much valuable bandwidth for updates).
Any information about exact rollout to devices is sketchy, so I agree with Brad. Maybe it has to do with geographic location (well, time zone) for all we know. I guess I'd give it another week before getting (justifiably) super annoyed and/or negative.
Maybe someone at Ting has more info than I do - although I just had another tech suggest I do a factory reset to try to fix a problem...despite mountains of evidence to the contrary here and elsewhere. At least he took my word for it that a factory reset would cause more problems than it could possibly fix. More likely is that another user has found something useful.
I'll let folks know if I come across anything.
Thanks for the info Jeremy!
"This forum post will be updated with any new information on this issue." July 2014
Not one Ting update since.
Flashed back to stock yesterday, waited around, reset, turned it off for an hour...no luck. Again, I wish we could suddenly get access to the FW and take care of this ourselves.
Hi Jeremy,
I wasted my day trying to pin down why our phones haven't been included in the existing updates. As far as I can tell from reading OEM developer docs (https://dev.windowsphone.com/en-US/OEM/docs/Update/Update), both the manufacturer and mobile operator are required for signing off to MS any updates (either SW or FW). There's no talk of MVNOs in the signing process.
After considering a lot of info, I get the feeling the OEM (Samsung) takes requests from mobile operators to update certain devices. Sprint makes requests to Samsung to update devices active on their network, of which Ting devices absurdly are not considered a part of (even though Sprint's logo is printed on the box, and there's no other way to use them). So if this is considered correct, it's Ting's responsibility to request a device update with Samsung. Sadly Ting does not consider itself responsible, or capable in this sense as we found out with our suggested roaming fix. Even if Ting were able to provide a request to Samsung to update our devices with the same images used to update Sprint's active devices, there would probably be some kind of property claim over the images Sprint signed.
So supposedly Ting's then made a request to Sprint to have our devices updated? Why I can't say for sure after a year+ is really infuriating.
Anytime I speak to Sprint or Samsung, they simply point me to Ting to ask them when the update is due. Why a separate update is even needed is beyond me. Does Sprint or Samsung charge Ting for updating its active devices? If so does Ting not want to pay?
People have brought over updated 8XTs from Sprint onto Ting without issue. Have any Sprint updated Neos made it over?
DAMMIT I can't even download most apps I want now on top of everything else.
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